From zmerch@30below.com Wed May 06 01:35:15 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 14560 invoked from network); 6 May 1998 01:25:34 -0000 Received: from ns2.30below.com (HELO www.30below.com) (12.15.88.2) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 6 May 1998 01:25:34 -0000 Content-Length: 1876 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on Linux Sender: zmerch@www.30below.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 22:24:22 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Iceberg Computers From: Roger Merchberger To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: The list is finally up! Hey all! Yea, it's taken me longer than I thought, but the list is finally back up! If you don't get this message and want to be on this list, raise your hand! (or tell your friends to send a message to: m100-request@list.30below.com with "subscribe" or "sub" in the Subject: of the mail, and you'll be added. ;-) Otherwise, if you don't want to be here, you can do 1 of 2 things right now: 1) mail me at zmerch@30below.com and say "Unsubscribe me!" 2) if you're e-mail address is valid, send a mail to: m100-request@list.30below.com with the word "unsubscribe" or "unsub" in the Subject: of the message, and if your e-mail address in your mail software matches what's in the database, you'll be automagically unsubscribed. The good news: The double-triple-quadruple mailings are history. Roger's a SysAdmin again! And this won't change ever again, so the list should be more stable then ever! The bad news: I lost a few things in the move over, so the proggie that changed the list reply-to headers went *poof*. :-( So for now, you'll have to remember to change the reply-to address to m100@list.30below.com as it will put in the original poster's e-mail address when you hit reply in your mailer. I will search other archives I have or recode that feature in the near future. Welcome Back! Roger "Merch" Merchberger : 1) mail me at zmerch@30below.com and say "Unsubscribe me!" 2) if you're e-mail address is valid, send a mail to: m100-request@list.30below.com with the word "unsubscribe" or "unsub" in the Subject: of the message, and if you'r --- Roger Merchberger *** zmerch@30below.com Merch's AutoGenerated Message of Wisdom below! _/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_ Education and religion are two things not regulated by supply and demand. The less of either the people have, the less they want. -- Charlotte Observer, 1897 From lemonman@toast.net Wed May 06 06:52:28 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 15218 invoked from network); 6 May 1998 06:52:28 -0000 Received: from mail.toast.net (HELO MAIL01) (206.244.186.11) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 6 May 1998 06:52:28 -0000 Received: from lemmo - 206.244.186.201 by toast.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 6 May 1998 04:00:26 -0400 From: "Jonathan Schroeder" To: Subject: Lists Back! Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 03:59:37 -0400 Message-ID: <01bd78c4$ea0bb1c0$c9baf4ce@lemmo> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Return-Path: lemonman@toast.net Hey all, Seems the list is up and running again :). Missed yall, good to be back. -Jonathan From bassclef@netcom.ca Wed May 06 14:01:04 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 15742 invoked from network); 6 May 1998 14:01:04 -0000 Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (207.93.1.152) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 6 May 1998 14:01:04 -0000 Received: from lon-on1-15.netcom.ca (bassclef@lon-on1-15.netcom.ca [207.181.78.79]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA03921 for ; Wed, 6 May 1998 11:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199805061508.LAA03921@tor-smtp1.netcom.ca> X-Sender: bassclef@netcom.ca (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: m100@list.30below.com From: Jennifer Jones Subject: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed Hello all! Nice to see you all again, and once again a huge thanks to Merch for making it all possible. We should institute an annual award for service to the m100 community, and name it after Merch, methinks. Have any of you been following the thread on c.s.tandy about the compu$erve m100 files? We should try to find a way of archiving those files before they vanish into the ether, don't you think? Here's another idea I was thinking of: an m100 CD ROM, with all the PD stuff on it. I don't have a burner myself, but I'd be willing to help out catalogging and sorting and so on. We could pool all the files somewhere, and then each take a catagory of files to catalog. Any interest? Hope you're all well - it's finally summer, which means OUTDOOR COMPUTING! *grin* take care folks! Pat McNeil From thedock@value.net Wed May 06 14:33:49 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 15924 invoked from network); 6 May 1998 14:33:49 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 6 May 1998 14:33:49 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id IAA24524 for ; Wed, 6 May 1998 08:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:41:26 -0700 (PDT) From: To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: Lists Back! In-Reply-To: <01bd78c4$ea0bb1c0$c9baf4ce@lemmo> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 6 May 1998, Jonathan Schroeder wrote: > Hey all, Seems the list is up and running again :). Missed yall, good > to be back. And a GREAT BIG THANKS is in order for Merch, too. So, this bud's for you. 10 'BUD.BA by Tom Haskins Jul/88 20 'CLUB 100 Library 30 CLS:PRINT:A$="You've Said It All":GOSUB400 40 PRINT:A$="By Steve Karmen":GOSUB400 50 PRINT:A$="Arranged for Model 100 by Tom Haskins":GOSUB400 60 READ A,B 65 IF A=0THENEND 70 SOUND A,B 75 GOTO60 400 PRINTTAB((40-(LEN(A$)))/2)A$:RETURN 500 FOR I = 1 TO X:READ A,B:SOUND A,B:NEXT I:RETURN 1000 DATA 7456,14,7032,14,6269,14,5586,14,2,56,5586,14,4976,14,4697,14,4184,14,4697,14,4697,14,4976,14,4976,14,5586,14,5586,7,6269,14,6269,7 1010 DATA 2,70,7456,14,7032,14,6269,14,5586,14,2,56,5586,14,4976,14,4697,14,4184,14,4697,14,4697,14,4976,14,4976,14,5586,7,5586,21,6269,14,6269,14,3728,7,3728,7,2,42 1020 DATA 7456,14,7032,14,6269,14,5586,14,2,56,5586,14,4976,14,4697,14,4184,14,4697,14,4697,14,4976,14,4976,14,5586,14,5586,7,6269,14,6269,7 1030 DATA 2,70,7456,14,7032,14,6269,14,5586,14,2,56,5586,14,4976,14,4697,14,4184,14,4697,14,4697,14,4976,14,4976,14,5586,7,5586,21,6269,14,6269,14,3728,7,3728,7,2,42 1040 DATA 7456,14,7032,14,6269,14,5586,14,2,56,5586,14,4976,14,4697,14,4184,14,4697,14,4697,14,4976,14,4976,14,5586,14,5586,7,6269,14,6269,7 1050 DATA 2,70,7456,14,7032,14,6269,14,5586,14,2,56,5586,14,4976,14,4697,14,4184,14,4697,14,4697,14,4976,14,4976,14,5586,7,5586,21,6269,14,6269,14,3728,7,3728,7 1060 DATA 2,42,3728,14,3516,14,3728,14,3728,7,4184,14,4184,49,4184,14,3728,14,3516,14,3516,7,3728,14,3728,49,3728,14,3516,14,3728,14,3134,7,3516,14,3516,49 1070 DATA 4184,14,3728,14,3516,14,3516,7,3728,14,3728,49,3728,14,3516,14,3134,14,2793,56,2793,14,3134,14 1080 DATA 2,42,2793,14,3516,7,4184,21,4697,14 2000 DATA 0,0 From thedock@value.net Wed May 06 15:19:54 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 16129 invoked from network); 6 May 1998 15:19:53 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 6 May 1998 15:19:53 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id JAA05610 for ; Wed, 6 May 1998 09:27:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 09:27:35 -0700 (PDT) From: To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed In-Reply-To: <199805061508.LAA03921@tor-smtp1.netcom.ca> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 6 May 1998, Jennifer Jones wrote: > Nice to see you all again, and once again a huge thanks to Merch for making > it all possible. We should institute an annual award for service to the m100 > community, and name it after Merch, methinks. I agree... quick, think of something! > Have any of you been following the thread on c.s.tandy about the compu$erve > m100 files? We should try to find a way of archiving those files before > they vanish into the ether, don't you think? I'm been talking about this for years, knowing that one day they would go away. But take heart, many years ago, our librarian (when he was active), Robert Benson, went through the CIS M100SIG library and gleened off the best of the best for our library. The process was tedious. There are more than one version of programs and many don't work or are missing things -- kind of like work in progress. After finding the best one, he'd check it out, document, etc. then put it into the library. It took him a long time. NOTE: Back when the M100SIG changed hands, back in the early '80s, the original founder was fired and went off to GEnie to build a competing library. I clearly recall that we [Club 100] held a special meeting at the Persidio of San Francisco. Our guest speaker was Mark Epply, owner/president of Traveling Software. In attendance was the new owner of the M100SIG and the old (fired) sysop. The sysop asked for our library to help seed his on GEnie. I gave it to him. A side note: The new owner of the M100SIG confronted me and said that he didn't appreciate our [Club 100] competing with CIS. The guy was not only an asshole but an idiot. He was afraid that our club, being online too, would steal files from Compuserve -- or something like that. Anyway, he was comparing our BBS operation to CIS. At that time, we were running a Model III with 4, 180K drives on one phone line for e-mail and a Model IV with 4, 180K drives on another phone line for the library -- which was very, very small. Frankly, what built Club 100 (it's heart) was not its online operation but its off-line, mail order support operations. You see, more people are not online by a factor of 1000 to 1. By supporting the non-onliners, we built our reputation. I can't begin to tell you how many thousands of dollars we made distributing our on-disk version of our library. There are currently 24 issues (disks) and 2 Model 200 disks in our mail order version. It's available on DOS 5.25", DOS 3.5", TPDD and TPDD2 formats. And, in the beginning, we even offered it on tape! Last year, if you'll recall, there was talk on this service about coordinating all the lists of programs together into one, master list. I suggested, at that time, to use the Club 100 library as a starting point, since we did sooooooo much work over soooo many years, including lots of thoughts about categories to come up with what we currently have. I also suggested that similar programs be matched against what the programming in our library to make sure that the best be chosen, checked and documented. I recall even offering to compensate a person doing the job. He (I forgot that person's name) said he'd start on it but never heard back from him. > Here's another idea I was thinking of: an m100 CD ROM, with all the PD > stuff on it. I don't have a burner myself, but I'd be willing to help > out catalogging and sorting and so on. We could pool all the files > somewhere, and then each take a catagory of files to catalog. This too, a CD, has recently been discussed -- or at least I received either a call or e-mail on this subject. Building a CD with "all" (an elusive concept) the model 100 programming on it would also have room for all the magazine issues ever authored, as well -- another topic that will go nowhere. But... and this is a BIG BUTT... the programs would have to be checked and rechecked and the ducumentation checked and rechecked, for every program to make sure that you had the best quality CD available, i..e. if you're gong to do it, do it right. This is a TON of work. During the process of making the Club 100 library, Robert attempted to group the programs by their machine type, as well. Where there were versions for the Model 100/102, Model 200 and NEC PC8201a, the extension was used to tell them appart, i.e. .100, .200, .NEC. You will find such throughout the Club 100 library. Anyway, it's a nobal idea and probably must be done, i.e. get all the files from CIS and all other sources and coordinate the project of building the ultimate library. Once built, it would be made available at the Club 100 web site for all to use for free. And... I am willing to finance the work! Hello! Anyone out there? I am willing to finance the work. I will want to see proposals. The first proposal is for acquiring all the files from CIS and all other sources. Let's focus on the first job: Get the files before they turn off the computer! Who is willing to do that work, how much money do you want to do it, and when will it be done and in my hands? Richard Hanson, Proprietor thedock@value.net Club 100: The Model "T" User Group (since 1983) P.O. Box 23438, Pleasant Hill, CA 94523-0438 925-932-8956, fax 937-5039, bbs 939-1246 http://www.the-dock.com/club100.html From m100@oly.chem.yale.edu Wed May 06 17:44:18 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 16534 invoked from network); 6 May 1998 17:44:18 -0000 Received: from oly.chem.yale.edu (130.132.25.222) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 6 May 1998 17:44:18 -0000 Received: from [130.132.25.222] by oly.chem.yale.edu with SMTP (MailShare 1.0b8); Wed, 6 May 1998 15:05:21 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:05:21 -0400 To: m100@list.30below.com From: m100@oly.chem.yale.edu (Ryan MacArthur) Subject: Re: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed >Anyway, it's a nobal idea and probably must be done, i.e. get all the >files from CIS and all other sources and coordinate the project of >building the ultimate library. Once built, it would be made available at >the Club 100 web site for all to use for free. And... > >I am willing to finance the work! Hello! Anyone out there? I am willing >to finance the work. I will want to see proposals. The first proposal is >for acquiring all the files from CIS and all other sources. Let's focus >on the first job: Get the files before they turn off the computer! Who is >willing to do that work, how much money do you want to do it, and when >will it be done and in my hands? So now what does leeching the files of CIS involve here? Is it just going to an FTP site with a few blank zips, highlighting a folder and clicking "get files," or is it more involved than that (like getting an account, figuring out a crappy proprietary browser, and manually transferring the files one at at time with said crappy browser)? I haven't been following the tandy newsgroup thread... when is CIS planning on pulling the plug? So while we're on the subject of being noble, assuming we get all the files before they smash the SIG server (and I know I'm thinking too far ahead by assuming we'd get the files), would a divide and conquer approach be too chaotic? I'm thinking if we each do our part to check and write a short description of a chunk of the files, you know, "everyone grab a stack of floppies!" then we might be able to get it done fairly quick and painlessly. I'm willing to provide FTP space for down/uploads, but something web-based with a lovely cgi script that people could check off the files they've looked at and see what still needs to be done, now, wouldn't that be nice? Maybe I've held onto a sad shred of optimism through my studies so far, though... -Ryan From cameron@stl.dec.com Wed May 06 21:58:57 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 17309 invoked from network); 6 May 1998 21:58:57 -0000 Received: from mail1.digital.com (204.123.2.50) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 6 May 1998 21:58:57 -0000 Received: from redbck.stl.dec.com (redbck.stl.dec.com [16.153.32.4]) by mail1.digital.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0e) with SMTP id QAA29887 for ; Wed, 6 May 1998 16:06:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by redbck.stl.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391); id AA25160; Thu, 7 May 1998 09:05:12 +1000 Received: from localhost by ogg.stl.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Oct96-0405PM) id AA31366; Thu, 7 May 1998 09:06:29 +1000 Sender: cameron@ogg.stl.dec.com Message-Id: <3550ECF5.7DE1@stl.dec.com> Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 09:06:29 +1000 From: James Cameron Organization: Netrek Vanilla Server Maintainer X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V3.2 alpha) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed [compuserve & cd-rom] References: <199805061508.LAA03921@tor-smtp1.netcom.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jennifer Jones wrote: > Have any of you been following the thread on c.s.tandy about the > compu$erve m100 files? Yes, and I have contributed to it. The newsgroup is comp.sys.tandy though, for any newbies who haven't accessed it. Generally, if your web browser is sufficiently configured, you need only to open a URL of news:comp.sys.tandy in order to see the discussions. > We should try to find a way of archiving those files before > they vanish into the ether, don't you think? Only subject to copyright law. I'm not going to support any effort that violates copyright. Dangerous for professional health. > I don't have a burner myself, but I'd be willing to help out > catalogging and sorting and so on. We could pool all the files > somewhere, and then each take a catagory of files to catalog. I have access to two or three burners, on which a master could be made, but we'd need firm orders for the product before someone went into production with it. ;-) There's an AltaVista Search facility available soon that can be built onto a CD-ROM to let people search the CD-ROM for matching keywords, in the same way that AltaVista works. This would greatly increase the utility of the CD-ROM and reduce the effort required to catalog. http://altavista.software.digital.com/ > Hope you're all well - it's finally summer, which means OUTDOOR > COMPUTING! *grin* Have a heart for the rest of us. It's cold down here! ;-) [a grin] -- James Cameron (cameron@stl.dec.com) Digital Equipment Corporation (Australia) Pty. Ltd. A.C.N. 000 446 800 From cameron@stl.dec.com Wed May 06 22:04:35 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 17446 invoked from network); 6 May 1998 22:04:35 -0000 Received: from mail1.digital.com (204.123.2.50) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 6 May 1998 22:04:35 -0000 Received: from redbck.stl.dec.com (redbck.stl.dec.com [16.153.32.4]) by mail1.digital.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0e) with SMTP id QAA06231; Wed, 6 May 1998 16:12:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by redbck.stl.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391); id AA25209; Thu, 7 May 1998 09:10:41 +1000 Received: from localhost by ogg.stl.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Oct96-0405PM) id AA05039; Thu, 7 May 1998 09:11:58 +1000 Sender: cameron@ogg.stl.dec.com Message-Id: <3550EE3E.4487@stl.dec.com> Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 09:11:58 +1000 From: James Cameron Organization: Netrek Vanilla Server Maintainer X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V3.2 alpha) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan MacArthur Cc: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Ryan MacArthur wrote: > I'm willing to provide FTP space for down/uploads, but > something web-based with a lovely cgi script that people could check > off the files they've looked at and see what still needs to be done, > now, wouldn't that be nice? Easy stuff. If that's how I can serve, let me at it. Of course, if it was a funded effort I'd _really_ have to get management approval. If it was non-profit I'd have no trouble. -- James Cameron (cameron@stl.dec.com) Digital Equipment Corporation (Australia) Pty. Ltd. A.C.N. 000 446 800 From krisbee@i-2000.com Thu May 07 02:08:46 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 18300 invoked from network); 7 May 1998 02:08:45 -0000 Received: from i-2000.com (204.97.92.2) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 7 May 1998 02:08:45 -0000 Received: from krisbee (dyn1.access1.farmingdale.i-2000.net [207.97.130.66]) by i-2000.com (8.8.8/8.7) with SMTP id XAA00578 for ; Wed, 6 May 1998 23:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <35512782.5D07@i-2000.com> Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 23:16:18 -0400 From: "Kristopher B." Reply-To: krisbee@i-2000.com Organization: http://www.i2.i-2000.com/~krisbee X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > on the first job: Get the files before they turn off the computer! Who is > willing to do that work, how much money do you want to do it, and when > will it be done and in my hands? About a year or so ago, I did a batch command and downloaded almost all of the CIS files.. They are catergorized by their categories.. I have it on zip disk.. it is about 20 megs zipped -- http://www.i2.i-2000.com/~krisbee From zmerch@30below.com Thu May 07 16:30:18 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 20228 invoked from network); 7 May 1998 16:30:17 -0000 Received: from ns2.30below.com (HELO www.30below.com) (12.15.88.2) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 7 May 1998 16:30:17 -0000 Content-Length: 2722 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on Linux Sender: zmerch@www.30below.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199805061508.LAA03921@tor-smtp1.netcom.ca> Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:15:28 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Iceberg Computers From: Roger Merchberger To: Jennifer Jones Subject: RE: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed Cc: m100@list.30below.com On 06-May-98 Jennifer Jones wrote: > >Hello all! > >Nice to see you all again, and once again a huge thanks to Merch for making >it all possible. We should institute an annual award for service to the m100 >community, and name it after Merch, methinks. Awww, gwarsh! Thanks, but the award thingy sounds too much to me... I'm just an overworked sot that's now part-owner of an ISP so I can do what I want. >Have any of you been following the thread on c.s.tandy about the compu$erve >m100 files? We should try to find a way of archiving those files before >they vanish into the ether, don't you think? I have a goodly number of those files (back when I wasn on the $erv) archived on M.O. but they are in no way organized or complete. We've yacked about the $erv stuff in the past, and I recall that *if* the original author of the software releases his program(s) to freeware, then you are not violating $erv's copyright. Without explicit permission from the author to redistrubute, tho, I think there's a problem with said copyright issues. AAMAF, a few folks on this forum previously had stated that they released all their CIS-contributed stuff to the public... but I do believe that there will need to be something a little more permanent (and widely available) to post stuff like that on. ... ... Bing! Idea time! (Yea, there I go, working without tools again! ;^) On my forthcoming new & improved site, I'll have a page that I can post this type of information. The site (when functional) will be at http://www.30below.com/~zmerch I've been busy... my father-in-law passed away yesterday, so that's why the list, my webpage & other stuff have been delayed. (Also, any sub/unsub requests may not be "instantaneous" as well...) >Here's another idea I was thinking of: an m100 CD ROM, with all the PD stuff >on it. I don't have a burner myself, but I'd be willing to help out >catalogging and sorting and so on. We could pool all the files somewhere, >and then each take a catagory of files to catalog. > >Any interest? Supposing someone would like to do the file organization & related stuff, I own a burner, so that's not a problem with me. However, my time is tight right now, so I honestly cannot commit much to a project of that magnatude at this time. >Hope you're all well - it's finally summer, which means OUTDOOR COMPUTING! >*grin* Don't let the folks in Australia hear you say that... they're skiing down under right now! Have fun, Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- Roger Merchberger *** zmerch@30below.com Merch's AutoGenerated Message of Wisdom below! _/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_ QOTD: "The elder gods went to Suggoth and all I got was this lousy T-shirt." From thedock@value.net Sat May 09 12:43:10 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 24165 invoked from network); 9 May 1998 12:43:10 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 9 May 1998 12:43:10 -0000 Received: (from thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) id GAA10585; Sat, 9 May 1998 06:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 06:50:41 -0700 (PDT) From: thedock@value.net Message-Id: <199805091350.GAA10585@value.net> To: m100@list.30below.com X-URL: http://www.the-dock.com/c100/list.html X-Mailer: Lynx, Version 2.7 Subject: MailList On or Off This is just an advisory that there is now a "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" feature at Club 100 for accessing the maillist. Once again, it's easy to get on and off the list. If you know of anyone who you feel should be on the list, please point them to the Club 100 web site at: http://www.the-dock.com/club100.html At your service... -Rick @ Club 100- From thedock@value.net Sat May 09 12:58:27 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 24292 invoked from network); 9 May 1998 12:58:26 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 9 May 1998 12:58:26 -0000 Received: (from thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) id HAA12005; Sat, 9 May 1998 07:05:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 07:05:58 -0700 (PDT) From: thedock@value.net Message-Id: <199805091405.HAA12005@value.net> To: m100@list.30below.com X-URL: http://www.the-dock.com/c100/list.html X-Mailer: Lynx, Version 2.7 Subject: CIS M100SIG Files FYI: Thanks to a fellow Model 100 enthusiast in New York, the entire contents of the M100SIG at CIS will soon be in the Club 100 computer lab but "not" online. Once received, a ton of work will have to be done before any will be transferred to our web site. I have lots of other programming not on any system to add as well. There's about 1,000 files available right now, and I suspect that a thousand or so will be added. Note: To make things easier over here, the first library to be updated will be on our BBS. Once that's settled down, all the files will be duplicated over at the web site. So, for the next year, any new files and all changes will be available at the Club 100 BBS. But again, don't expect anything to happen overnight. Coordinating all this programming and information into our library will take quite an effort over time. However, since a major amount of the work was done several years ago by our librarian, Robert Benson, some of the programs in the library are already up-to-date since no further changes were made to those files. Thus, the library as it stands, is pretty good. -Rick @ Club 100- From djfirth@freenet.columbus.oh.us Sun May 10 01:51:30 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 25619 invoked from network); 10 May 1998 01:51:30 -0000 Received: from mail.freenet.columbus.oh.us (164.107.107.13) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 10 May 1998 01:51:30 -0000 Received: from acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us (login [164.107.107.11]) by mail.freenet.columbus.oh.us (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id WAA14206 for ; Sat, 9 May 1998 22:58:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from djfirth@localhost) by acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us (8.8.5/8.8.4) id WAA29278; Sat, 9 May 1998 22:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 22:55:13 -0400 (EDT) From: David Firth Subject: NEC site To: M100 Listserv Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII FWIW, I started a NEC PC-8201A site to support this machine a little more specifically. Its out on geocities, which isn't my favorite bunch-o-people, but it is free and has enough space for the stuff I want to highlight. Stop by if you get a chance and make some suggestions. BTW Rick, I still intend to write up some TWE stuff like we discussed last year. My how time flies. http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Campus/7071/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Under heaven nothing is more soft and yielding than ! David Firth water. Yet for attacking the solid and strong, nothing ! NEC PC-8201A is better. It has no equal. -- from Tao Te Ching 78 ! Tandy 1100FD From djfirth@freenet.columbus.oh.us Sun May 10 01:59:00 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 25731 invoked from network); 10 May 1998 01:58:59 -0000 Received: from mail.freenet.columbus.oh.us (164.107.107.13) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 10 May 1998 01:58:59 -0000 Received: from acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us (login [164.107.107.11]) by mail.freenet.columbus.oh.us (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id XAA14564 for ; Sat, 9 May 1998 23:06:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from djfirth@localhost) by acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us (8.8.5/8.8.4) id XAA00459; Sat, 9 May 1998 23:06:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 23:03:48 -0400 (EDT) From: David Firth Subject: (fwd) Web100 is still here for Info on Portable Tandies (fwd) To: M100 Listserv Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > www.dillernet.com/m100 No workie from several ISPs I've tried. They report "dillernet" as having no DNS entry. > I also have a mirror on Geo-cities: > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6310/indexG.html This one works. Yippee! > -andy -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Under heaven nothing is more soft and yielding than ! David Firth water. Yet for attacking the solid and strong, nothing ! NEC PC-8201A is better. It has no equal. -- from Tao Te Ching 78 ! Tandy 1100FD From krypton!shadow@qiclab.scn.rain.com Sun May 10 02:26:39 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 25888 invoked from network); 10 May 1998 02:26:38 -0000 Received: from qiclab.scn.rain.com (root@205.238.26.97) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 10 May 1998 02:26:38 -0000 Received: by qiclab.scn.rain.com (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #1) id ; Sat, 9 May 1998 20:34:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by krypton.rain.com (rnr) via rnr; Sat, 9 May 1998 20:00:28 PST To: m100@list.30below.com X-Original-Article-From: James Cameron Subject: Re: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed [compuserve & cd-rom] From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Message-ID: <980509.200028.2S1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 20:00:28 PST In-Reply-To: <3550ECF5.7DE1@stl.dec.com> Organization: Shadownet X-Newsreader: rnr v2.20 In mail, cameron@stl.dec.com writes: >> We should try to find a way of archiving those files before >> they vanish into the ether, don't you think? > > Only subject to copyright law. I'm not going to support any effort that > violates copyright. Dangerous for professional health. Well, I think the best bet is to have *someone* (or several someones) archive the files while it is still possible. *Then* we can try tracking down authors for permission. -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort From thedock@value.net Sun May 10 14:06:26 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 26797 invoked from network); 10 May 1998 14:06:26 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 10 May 1998 14:06:26 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id IAA11779 for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 08:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 08:13:52 -0700 (PDT) From: To: M100 Listserv Subject: Re: NEC site In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 9 May 1998, David Firth wrote: > FWIW, I started a NEC PC-8201A site to support... [snip] Excellent. Of all the NECers over the years, you and Gary Weber have done the most support -- at least here at Club 100 via the BBS. I captured your page URL and will add it as a link at the Club 100 web site. > BTW Rick, I still intend to write up some TWE stuff like we discussed > last year. My how time flies. Don't panic. I haven't been very active in my plans, either. My web-work career focus has really taken off. I focused on a field I wanted to teach in but never got the opportunity (California Agriculture) and have landed some very nice contracts. Needless to say, I'm very busy once again. Club 100 issues have taken a back burner but are not forgotten. So again, don't panic. Things take time -- especially volunteer and hobby stuff. From thedock@value.net Sun May 10 14:33:21 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 26946 invoked from network); 10 May 1998 14:33:21 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 10 May 1998 14:33:21 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id IAA13712; Sun, 10 May 1998 08:39:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 08:39:33 -0700 (PDT) From: To: Leonard Erickson cc: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed [compuserve & cd-rom] In-Reply-To: <980509.200028.2S1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 9 May 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote: > Well, I think the best bet is to have *someone* (or several someones) > archive the files while it is still possible. *Then* we can try tracking > down authors for permission. A 6-meg archive from about a year ago is on the way to me as we speak. I will post the extent of the archive and ask for the rest. This will reduce the work. Once in-house, contacting authors is high on the list of priorities. I will probably post a list of authors and ask all the folks on the m100 maillist to help out. Let's keep something in mind: A copyright does not stop the copying process. It allows the author a legal path to follow. The copyright laws also allow copying for educational purposes and other freedoms of use. Furthermore, there are questions about copyrights applied to works online, especially program code that is otherwise in the public domain by custom and use. And, there have been plenty of questions about the legality of how CIS imposed their restriction, i.e. all subject matter posted on CIS is the property of CIS, unless otherwise posted. These are big questions that others have had a very hard, expensive time supporting. When we contact Model "T" program authors, it will be out of respect, not ncesessity. -Rick @ Club 100- From cameron@stl.dec.com Sun May 10 22:00:18 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 27899 invoked from network); 10 May 1998 22:00:17 -0000 Received: from mail1.digital.com (204.123.2.50) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 10 May 1998 22:00:17 -0000 Received: from redbck.stl.dec.com (redbck.stl.dec.com [16.153.32.4]) by mail1.digital.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0e) with SMTP id QAA19420 for ; Sun, 10 May 1998 16:07:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by redbck.stl.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391); id AA14397; Mon, 11 May 1998 09:06:22 +1000 Received: from localhost by ogg.stl.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Oct96-0405PM) id AA23914; Mon, 11 May 1998 09:07:39 +1000 Sender: cameron@ogg.stl.dec.com Message-Id: <3556333B.59E2@stl.dec.com> Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:07:39 +1000 From: James Cameron Organization: Netrek Vanilla Server Maintainer X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V3.2 alpha) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Tandy Model 100 Mailing List Subject: Re: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed [compuserve & cd-rom] References: <980509.200028.2S1.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Leonard Erickson wrote: > Well, I think the best bet is to have *someone* (or several someones) > archive the files while it is still possible. *Then* we can try > tracking down authors for permission. Aye, this is "reasonable" as far as a court would see it, in my opinion. If you have done all that is reasonable to try to contact the author, you may still be able to publish it provided you are clear as to where you got it from and what the author's name was on the item. I imagine that asking Compuserve to be your mediator for contacting these authors who have terminated their Compuserve membership may result in a refusal. -- James Cameron (cameron@stl.dec.com) Digital Equipment Corporation (Australia) Pty. Ltd. A.C.N. 000 446 800 From qseep@shells.technojunkie.com Tue May 12 16:20:27 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 1580 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 16:20:26 -0000 Received: from shells.technojunkie.com (qseep@208.145.132.231) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 12 May 1998 16:20:26 -0000 Received: from localhost (qseep@localhost) by shells.technojunkie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA28038 for ; Tue, 12 May 1998 10:21:23 -0700 Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:21:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Quantum Seep To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: FC Error Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi, I just got a Tandy 100 and it's great! However, I'm now having a problem. I had saved a few files (text and BASIC) just fine. Then I typed in the "FENIX" game from the Club 100 web site. Before I finished typing it, I saved it. All went fine. Later, I turned on the machine, loaded the file, and finished entering the program. When I tried to save it, it apparently successfully saved but gave me an "FC Error." I understand that's an illegal instruction. Sounds like a bug. Then I modified a text document in TEXT and tried to save it under a new name. I heard a click and the computer paused. Then it clicked again. It sounded like a modem going on/off hook. I wonder if it's trying to access the modem? I tried entering a small test program in BASIC and saving it. That went OK. Then I tried to save it again. "?FC Error". However, it saved properly. Am I using the wrong command to save, or what? There is plenty of RAM left. Thanks for your help. /-------- Quantum Seep, qseep@technojunkie.com --- PGP fingerprint: 5B 3B 7B EC AA 5B 4B 7F 65 7D 2A CD 69 11 29 2A From zmerch@30below.com Tue May 12 16:45:23 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 1839 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 16:45:23 -0000 Received: from ns2.30below.com (HELO www.30below.com) (12.15.88.2) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 12 May 1998 16:45:23 -0000 Content-Length: 3281 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on Linux Sender: zmerch@www.30below.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Iceberg Computers From: Roger Merchberger To: Quantum Seep Subject: RE: FC Error Cc: m100@list.30below.com On 12-May-98 Quantum Seep wrote: >Hi, I just got a Tandy 100 and it's great! However, I'm now having >a problem. I had saved a few files (text and BASIC) just fine. >Then I typed in the "FENIX" game from the Club 100 web site. Before >I finished typing it, I saved it. All went fine. Later, I turned >on the machine, loaded the file, and finished entering the program. >When I tried to save it, it apparently successfully saved but gave >me an "FC Error." I understand that's an illegal instruction. >Sounds like a bug. Okay -- where did you save the file, to RAM, to cassette, or to disk? Basic programs default to saving to RAM, but if you issue a: "save cas:xxxxx.bas" it will be saved to cassette, and a: "save 0:xxxxx.bas" it will be saved to disk drive 0 of the DVI (I think that's right.) Also, an FC error is not an illegal instruction, per se... you would see a SN error (Syntax error) if you typed in an instruction that doesn't exist. The FC error stands for an illegal function call error -- you tried to call a function with a parameter that was out of specs. The Tandy 100 screen is (i believe -- I have a T200) 240 pixels wide by 64 pixels deep, and you can actually make lines & stuff on the display thru basic. The command: line (0,0)-(239,63),b,1 should actually make a black box all the way around the display. If you tried to actually call the line function like this: line (-1,-1)-(280,280),b,99 you would get an FC error because: 1) you cannot use negative numbers in coordinate systems on this machine, 2) the upper coordinates are both too high for the screen (remember, it's 240x64) 3) the last number (where the 99 is) is the color number, and there's only two colors on the display -- black, and not-black. the FC error should have given you a line number -- check that line number for a typo in a number to a function call, or if the call is derived from an expression, there may be an error in that. (misplacing a + for a - or somthing like that). >Then I modified a text document in TEXT and tried to save it under a >new name. I heard a click and the computer paused. Then it clicked >again. It sounded like a modem going on/off hook. I wonder if >it's trying to access the modem? When you edit a text document, every edit you make is made to the RAM document in real time... you don't have to save a RAM doc before you exit. When you explicitly execute the save command while in TEXT, it assumes you want to save the file to cassette. That clicking sound you heard is the cassette remote relay clicking on and off, every 256 bytes of text information I believe. >I tried entering a small test program in BASIC and saving it. That >went OK. Then I tried to save it again. "?FC Error". However, >it saved properly. Am I using the wrong command to save, or what? >There is plenty of RAM left. Thanks for your help. If you actually listed that short program here, we would be able to tell you much more easily why it was having a problem running. Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- Roger Merchberger *** zmerch@30below.com Merch's AutoGenerated Message of Wisdom below! _/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_ I dote on his very absence. -- William Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice" From thedock@value.net Tue May 12 21:17:09 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 3018 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 21:17:09 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 12 May 1998 21:17:09 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id PAA10882; Tue, 12 May 1998 15:24:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:24:24 -0700 (PDT) From: To: Quantum Seep cc: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: FC Error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sounds like you were saving to tape. The clicking noise is the tape relay. Try this: TEXT: To use the TEXT program, you are asked to enter a filename before you can begin ... a 1 to 6 character filename, starting with an alpha character. When you exit the TEXT program, the file is automatically saved. You use the function key, or . BASIC: To save a program you've keyed into the BASIC editor, you simply put in the command save"filename and hit . The file will be saved in a tokenized form (not ASCII). The formal method, although not necessary, is save"filename.ba" and hit . Your function key will also exit the BASIC interperter. The word menu will do the same thing. To save a basic file to an ASCII file (.do) the command is save"filename.do" and hit . To save a file to tape (assuming you have the CCR-81 or 82 (the 82 is the best), the command is csave"filename and hit . Most folks key in program code using the TEXT editor -- it's easier that way. To bring that code into the BASIC editor, the command (in BASIC) is load"filename and hit . Formally, the command is load"filename.do" and hit . I will assume that the FC error you received is due to an input error on your part, not a "bug" in code that's been online since the mid '80's and used and tested by thousands. Sure, there are still bugs, but not in that particular program. It's very old code that's been around the block a few times. Why key programs from our site? This is crazy. Since you are using another computer to access the site, and it does not matter what other computer you are using, why not transfer the file from your other computer to your Model 100? All the files at our site, and on our bbs, are in ASCII (.DO files). Simply capture the file to your other computers hard disk or to a floppy. Connect your Model 100 via a null-modem cable to your other computer, and transfer the file. It will come in as a .do file. Then, go into BASIC and load it ... load"filename , then once loaded, save it as a .ba file with save"filename . If you're using a DOS/Windows computer, you will find a file named DL-ARC.EXE in the "member uploads" category of our library. Download it, make a sub-directory named c:\root, place it in that sub-directory and run it. All the docs are included in ASCII files with extensions of .doc. Welcome to Club 100 as a new member, now that you own a Model 100 computer. It's a wonderful, fun tool for which every day is an adventure in learning. To learn more about the BASIC commands, you will find the complete language in the "technical" area of our library. Have fun... -Rick- Richard Hanson, Proprietor thedock@value.net Club 100: The Model "T" User Group (since 1983) P.O. Box 23438, Pleasant Hill, CA 94523-0438 925-932-8956, fax 937-5039, bbs 939-1246 http://www.the-dock.com/club100.html On Tue, 12 May 1998, Quantum Seep wrote: > Hi, I just got a Tandy 100 and it's great! However, I'm now having > a problem. I had saved a few files (text and BASIC) just fine. > Then I typed in the "FENIX" game from the Club 100 web site. Before > I finished typing it, I saved it. All went fine. Later, I turned > on the machine, loaded the file, and finished entering the program. > When I tried to save it, it apparently successfully saved but gave > me an "FC Error." I understand that's an illegal instruction. > Sounds like a bug. > > Then I modified a text document in TEXT and tried to save it under a > new name. I heard a click and the computer paused. Then it clicked > again. It sounded like a modem going on/off hook. I wonder if > it's trying to access the modem? > > I tried entering a small test program in BASIC and saving it. That > went OK. Then I tried to save it again. "?FC Error". However, > it saved properly. Am I using the wrong command to save, or what? > There is plenty of RAM left. Thanks for your help. > > /-------- Quantum Seep, qseep@technojunkie.com --- > PGP fingerprint: 5B 3B 7B EC AA 5B 4B 7F 65 7D 2A CD 69 11 29 2A > > From thedock@value.net Tue May 12 21:38:55 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 3234 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 21:38:54 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 12 May 1998 21:38:54 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id PAA15745 for ; Tue, 12 May 1998 15:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:46:14 -0700 (PDT) From: To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed [compuserve & cd-rom] Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 12 May 1998, Jennifer Jones wrote: > Yes, I agree... stuff does tend to disappear, and it would be a damn shame > to lose it all out of hesitation. :) Let's remember that most all the "best stuff" was written in the late 80s to early 90s. And, since we've been here before (meaning that our librarian has already gone through this in the early 90s) there are lots of duplications and early work mixed in with the "final copy". > Cool. Hey, is there a difference between the way CI$ catalogged their > M100 files and the way Club 100 does? I don't know the CI$ system, but > I like the way Club 100 has it done, in terms of catagories. The CIS categories were set up in the early to mid 80s by the first sysop of the M100SIG (special interest group). I clearly recall several club meetings where we hashed over a much better group of categories. > It will be nice to have a sort of definitive package to work from. Ahmmm... yeah but this is going to be a job and a half. I have other files that are not on any system, to add to this "ultimate" soup. This is a BIG JOB! But what the hey... we are Club 100... it is our lot in life, I guess. -Rick- From qseep@shells.technojunkie.com Tue May 12 21:39:29 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 3340 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 21:39:29 -0000 Received: from shells.technojunkie.com (qseep@208.145.132.231) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 12 May 1998 21:39:29 -0000 Received: from localhost (qseep@localhost) by shells.technojunkie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA20135 for ; Tue, 12 May 1998 15:40:22 -0700 Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:40:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Quantum Seep To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: FC Error Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks for the responses to my problem. Let me explain a couple of things. I was posting about two different problems. One was the bit about saving a TEXT file. I understand now that it was trying to save to cassette. The other problem was the FC Error. Now this problem had nothing to do specifically with the program that I typed in from the web site. It was not a runtime error. It happened when I typed a simple command in immediate mode: save"fenix" I also tried variants such as save"ram:fenix" and save"fenix". What happened was, I typed the program in in BASIC mode, and saved it, partially complete, to RAM. Later I finished entering the program, and tried to save it again, using the same command above. It is this save command which generated the "?FC Error". Please also note that this error had nothing to do with the FENIX program specifically. I was able to reproduce this problem with other BASIC files. The first time I save it, it's fine. If I try to save again, it works, but I get this error. That is, it is correctly saving the file to RAM, but giving me this error anyway. I do not own a cassette. All of these saves are being done to RAM. As to why I typed it in: it's fun! I like typing in programs. If 15-year old computers can be fun, why not typing in listings? Besides, I'd need to snag my modem cable, and my roommate might need to use it today. (I have successfully connected my M100 and PC.) Maybe most of you don't enter programs in BASIC mode, so you haven't noticed this problem. I'm thinking perhaps I'm supposed to denote the fact that I'm saving over an existing file. Like on the Commodore 64, where you can save initally with SAVE"FILE",8 but subsequently need to write SAVE"@0:FILE",8. Thanks again for all your help. /-------- Quantum Seep, qseep@technojunkie.com --- PGP fingerprint: 5B 3B 7B EC AA 5B 4B 7F 65 7D 2A CD 69 11 29 2A From james.cameron@digital.com Tue May 12 22:03:12 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 3572 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 22:03:12 -0000 Received: from mail11.digital.com (192.208.46.10) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 12 May 1998 22:03:12 -0000 Received: from rmstar.stl.dec.com (rmstar.stl.dec.com [16.153.32.42]) by mail11.digital.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0e) with ESMTP id TAA24277; Tue, 12 May 1998 19:10:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ogg.stl.dec.com (ogg.stl.dec.com [16.153.32.169]) by rmstar.stl.dec.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA18744; Wed, 13 May 1998 09:10:17 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost by ogg.stl.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Oct96-0405PM) id AA30479; Wed, 13 May 1998 09:10:15 +1000 Sender: cameron@ogg.stl.dec.com Message-Id: <3558D6D7.167E@digital.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:10:15 +1000 From: James Cameron Organization: Netrek Vanilla Server Maintainer X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V3.2 alpha) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Quantum Seep Cc: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: FC Error References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Quantum Seep wrote: > Then I typed in the "FENIX" game from the Club 100 web site. Before > I finished typing it, I saved it. All went fine. Later, I turned > on the machine, loaded the file, and finished entering the program. > When I tried to save it, it apparently successfully saved but gave > me an "FC Error." I understand that's an illegal instruction. > Sounds like a bug. Did you try to run the program _at all_ before saving it? If so, I'd give 95% odds that you made a typo in entering the code. I've had a look at the code, which is available on the net as URL ftp://ftp.value.net/pub/thedock/c100/gam/fenix.ba and I found a few POKE instructions. All it takes is for you to miss one letter or make a small mistake either in the POKEs, the PEEKs that the POKEs use, or the setting of the variables. Been there, crashed that. What can happen is that the misdirected POKEs affect BASIC's in-memory tables or pointers. Corruption of the variable list or statement list can result, which will yield "undefined" behaviour. What you describe reminds me of similar random POKEs on my machines. To fix this, save all that you can from the machine onto another machine, then force a cold reset using SHIFT/BREAK/RESET combination. To diagnose it would require some hours of your time understanding how BASIC stores variables and statements for a program. It would take me about six hours to fully diagnose the problem with the machine in front of me and another working machine next to it. -- James Cameron (cameron@stl.dec.com) Digital Equipment Corporation (Australia) Pty. Ltd. A.C.N. 000 446 800 From thedock@value.net Tue May 12 22:04:47 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 3679 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 22:04:46 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 12 May 1998 22:04:46 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id QAA22779; Tue, 12 May 1998 16:12:04 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:12:04 -0700 (PDT) From: To: Quantum Seep cc: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: FC Error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 12 May 1998, Quantum Seep wrote: > What happened was, I typed the program in in BASIC mode, and saved it, > partially complete, to RAM. Later I finished entering the program, and > tried to save it again, using the same command above. It is this save > command which generated the "?FC Error". Ah! I see the problem. The FC Error is due to duplicate filenames. Here's the deal... When you saved the program the first time, it made the .ba file. Then, when you attempted to save it again, using the same filename, you got the error. The detail that you missed, was that all changes in BASIC are made to the original file, i.e. it's already saved! All you have to do is exit the BASIC interpreter. All changes you made were automatically made to the working copy. I don't know if you know this but, when in BASCI, you can edit the whole file or just parts using the TEXT program. By entering EDIT at the BASIC prompt, all the code is pipped into the TEXT program. Upon exit, the entire file overwrites the working code. Also, EDIT 10-50 will bring just lines 10-50 into the editor. Once again, exit the editor with and your changes to lines 10-50 will replace the old lines -- regardless if you changed them or not -- you'll see a "WAIT" blinking, then the OK appears. > As to why I typed it in: it's fun! I like typing in programs. If > 15-year old computers can be fun, why not typing in listings? Oh yeah! I'm with you, my friend. In the early days, the only way we got code into the Model 100 was to key it. Hey, that's how we learned. In fact, 80 Micro, Portable 100, PCM, Truly Portable, and several books, had code... lots and lots of code! We spent countless hours in coding bliss... then shared the code with all our friends via BBSes, such as the Club 100 bbs at 925-939-1246. Then we'd change things, and others would change things and revision after revision would fly around the world until the "ultimate" code was finally made and the documentation written... ...and then some wise-in-himer would do something a bit different and it started all over again. And oh my, oh my, oh my would tempers flare. Us free spirits had no problem with "floating code" -- an ever changing, evolving adventure -- but the "got-to-be-one-way" kind of folks threw all sorts of fits... cause now they had to go into their neat, little libraries and upgrade their lists, and their backups, and their neatly printed out and binderedized printouts. ...then just to be stinkers we'd do it again ... or at least that is what they thought! :-( ) And now you know the reason beer and pizza was invented: To give us something to refresh us as we plotted, secretly, to mess up all those neat little minds. AHHHH HA! -Rick @ Club 100- From zmerch@30below.com Tue May 12 22:18:46 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 3861 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 22:18:46 -0000 Received: from ns2.30below.com (HELO www.30below.com) (12.15.88.2) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 12 May 1998 22:18:46 -0000 Content-Length: 1600 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on Linux Sender: zmerch@www.30below.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:22:18 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Iceberg Computers From: Roger Merchberger To: thedock@value.net Subject: Re: FC Error Cc: m100@list.30below.com On 12-May-98 thedock@value.net wrote: Rick, Three little caveats, but all-in-all a very good help posting! 1) >To save a basic file to an ASCII file (.do) the command is >save"filename.do" and hit . To save the basic file as ASCII, you need to do this: save"filena.do",a the ,a on the end means "Don't tokenize this!" or else the .do file will still be tokenized! 2) >Most folks key in program code using the TEXT editor -- it's easier that >way. To bring that code into the BASIC editor, the command (in BASIC) is >load"filename and hit . Formally, the command is >load"filename.do" and hit . If it's a .do file, you cannot use the load"filena type of command. Basic always assumes a .ba extension, so if the file doesn't have a .ba, you have to expicitly provide it. The load"filena.do" will work fine, tho. The Basic interpreter will auto-tokenize when loading an ASCII file this way. 3) It seems, my friend, that you have been bitten by the "Dos-Bug", as (I'm sure you do know!) that the M100/T102/T200 only has 6.2 filenames, not 8.2, so "filename.do" would not be a valid filename to use on the 100. Yes, I know it's a small oversight (and I do it as well!) but especially as this was a beginner asking, it may have confused him. That's the only reason I pointed it out. And, may I say, "Damn, it's nice to have this list back again!" Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- Roger Merchberger *** zmerch@30below.com Merch's AutoGenerated Message of Wisdom below! _/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_ He who laughs, lasts. From thedock@value.net Tue May 12 22:26:17 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 4011 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 22:26:16 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 12 May 1998 22:26:16 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id QAA27374; Tue, 12 May 1998 16:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:33:33 -0700 (PDT) From: To: Roger Merchberger cc: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: FC Error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 12 May 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Yes, I know it's a small oversight (and I do it as well!) but especially > as this was a beginner asking, it may have confused him. That's the only > reason I pointed it out. I stand corrected, sir. Well actually, I'm sitting but what the hey! :-) Thanks for the corrections. I should have known better but it's been so long... I'll do better in the future. > And, may I say, "Damn, it's nice to have this list back again!" Yeah... sure is nice. See, your efforts on behalf of us all are soooooooo important. One person does make a difference. Thank you. -Rick- From qseep@shells.technojunkie.com Tue May 12 22:44:54 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 4201 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 22:44:53 -0000 Received: from shells.technojunkie.com (qseep@208.145.132.231) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 12 May 1998 22:44:53 -0000 Received: from localhost (qseep@localhost) by shells.technojunkie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA24881 for ; Tue, 12 May 1998 16:45:43 -0700 Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 16:45:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Quantum Seep To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: FC Error Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Thanks all, I get it now. It's transient until the first save. After that, all changes are automatically saved. In other words, "saving" the file really just means giving it a directory entry. BTW, the "Fenix" game works great. Well, the score display is a little buggy. I'll try to fix that. If your timer is in triple digits, your high score is 3 digits and so is your current score, it causes the screen to scroll constantly. I'm working on it. One other thing... I seem to be getting duplicates of the messages on this list. Perhaps I'm on it twice? /-------- Quantum Seep, qseep@technojunkie.com --- PGP fingerprint: 5B 3B 7B EC AA 5B 4B 7F 65 7D 2A CD 69 11 29 2A From zmerch@30below.com Tue May 12 22:47:21 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 4313 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 22:47:20 -0000 Received: from ns2.30below.com (HELO www.30below.com) (12.15.88.2) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 12 May 1998 22:47:20 -0000 Content-Length: 924 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on Linux Sender: zmerch@www.30below.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:55:16 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Iceberg Computers From: Roger Merchberger To: Roger Merchberger Subject: Re: FC Error Cc: m100@list.30below.com, thedock@value.net On 12-May-98 Roger Merchberger wrote: >On 12-May-98 thedock@value.net wrote: >1) >>To save a basic file to an ASCII file (.do) the command is >>save"filename.do" and hit . > >To save the basic file as ASCII, you need to do this: > >save"filena.do",a > >the ,a on the end means "Don't tokenize this!" or else the .do file will still >be tokenized! Sir Cameron instructed me that Rick is correct - that if you specify a .do on the end, you don't *need* the ,a afterwards... (but you can still put it on, and it will work fine, like most other Microsoft basics of the time) So Rick is right on this... cool. Just thought you'd all like to know. Happy Computing, Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- Roger Merchberger *** zmerch@30below.com Merch's AutoGenerated Message of Wisdom below! _/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_ Girls who throw themselves at men, are actually taking very careful aim. From zmerch@30below.com Tue May 12 22:50:25 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 4429 invoked from network); 12 May 1998 22:50:25 -0000 Received: from ns2.30below.com (HELO www.30below.com) (12.15.88.2) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 12 May 1998 22:50:25 -0000 Content-Length: 945 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on Linux Sender: zmerch@www.30below.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:59:53 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Iceberg Computers From: Roger Merchberger To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: FC Error On 12-May-98 Quantum Seep wrote: >One other thing... I seem to be getting duplicates of the messages >on this list. Perhaps I'm on it twice? Are you getting dupes of all messages, or messages on just this topic? I know I cc:'ed the message to you as well as to the list, so you would have receive an extra copy... if others did the same, you would see two copies of the message in that instance. (folks not on the list can still e-mail the list, so they may not get a response unless cc:'ed to them directly.) Did you get two copies of this message? I only sent it to the list. If not, you're fine. If so, let me know directly and I'll check out the subscription database. Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- Roger Merchberger *** zmerch@30below.com Merch's AutoGenerated Message of Wisdom below! _/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_ To be a kind of moral Unix, he touched the hem of Nature's shift. -- Shelley From thedock@value.net Wed May 13 05:07:19 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 6408 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 05:07:18 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 05:07:18 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id XAA29600 for ; Tue, 12 May 1998 23:14:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:14:36 -0700 (PDT) From: To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: FC Error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 12 May 1998, Quantum Seep wrote: > "saving" the file really just means giving it a directory entry. BINGO! > One other thing... I seem to be getting duplicates of the messages on > this list. Perhaps I'm on it twice? Yeah, we all know. Roger said he's working on that but at least we have a list again. To eliminate the duplicates, move the "cc" address when you reply to the "to" address line. It's a bit more work, and I have failed to remember to do this all day long, but it does work. -Rick- From thedock@value.net Wed May 13 05:11:27 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 6522 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 05:11:27 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 05:11:27 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id XAA00153 for ; Tue, 12 May 1998 23:18:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:18:45 -0700 (PDT) From: To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: FC Error In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 12 May 1998, Roger Merchberger wrote: > Sir Cameron instructed me that Rick is correct - that if you specify a .do on > the end, you don't *need* the ,a afterwards. You mean I got something correct! Holy Moly it "was" a good day after all! Way cool! Thanks! -Rick- From thedock@value.net Wed May 13 05:17:21 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 6643 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 05:17:21 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 05:17:21 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id XAA00748 for ; Tue, 12 May 1998 23:24:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 23:24:39 -0700 (PDT) From: To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Message Base In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Roger: How do you feel about the list? Is it time to make a big announcement for folks to get back on, or do you want to wait awhile? I can gleen my data base for e-mail addresses, and can gleen all the e-mail addresses from the forsale, wanted and guest book databases. Also, I make a separate page at the Club 100 web site announcing the new list since the one you had at "that other place" went bye bye... and you didn't let me know if you built a replacement -- I sent a note to you regarding this about a week or so ago. So, do you want to make a separate signup page or use the one I built over at the Club 100 site? -Rick- From krypton!shadow@qiclab.scn.rain.com Wed May 13 09:54:33 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 7190 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 09:54:33 -0000 Received: from qiclab.scn.rain.com (root@205.238.26.97) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 09:54:33 -0000 Received: by qiclab.scn.rain.com (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #1) id ; Wed, 13 May 1998 04:01:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by krypton.rain.com (rnr) via rnr; Wed, 13 May 1998 00:03:05 PST To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed [compuserve & cd-rom] From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Message-ID: <980513.000305.3y3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:03:05 PST In-Reply-To: Organization: Shadownet X-Newsreader: rnr v2.20 In mail you write: > On Sat, 9 May 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote: > >> Well, I think the best bet is to have *someone* (or several someones) >> archive the files while it is still possible. *Then* we can try tracking >> down authors for permission. > > A 6-meg archive from about a year ago is on the way to me as we speak. I > will post the extent of the archive and ask for the rest. This will > reduce the work. Once in-house, contacting authors is high on the list > of priorities. I will probably post a list of authors and ask all the > folks on the m100 maillist to help out. > > Let's keep something in mind: A copyright does not stop the copying > process. It allows the author a legal path to follow. The copyright laws > also allow copying for educational purposes and other freedoms of use. > Furthermore, there are questions about copyrights applied to works online, > especially program code that is otherwise in the public domain by custom > and use. And, there have been plenty of questions about the legality of > how CIS imposed their restriction, i.e. all subject matter posted on CIS > is the property of CIS, unless otherwise posted. These are big questions > that others have had a very hard, expensive time supporting. I've been involved with a couple CIS copyright enforcement efforts. What they are claiming is "compilation copyright". That's the sort of copyright the editor of a collection of stories or articles has on the *collection*. And CIS has a quite legitimate claim to that type of copyright. Taking the *whole* M100SIG library and putting on line is *absolutely* grounds for CIS to sue you. Ditto for taking it and editing it down to some sort of "best of" collection. > When we contact Model "T" program authors, it will be out of respect, not > ncesessity. Better have a *long* talk with a copyright lawyer first. Unless you can show that the material is freely available elsewhere, or that the author gave you permission, posting substantial portions of *any* SIGs library will get you sued when CIS finds out. And they have *won* such cases in the past. Again, they do not have a copyright on the inidividual files, but on the *collection* of files. Thus posting the whole thing is the *worst* thing you can do. -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort From krypton!shadow@qiclab.scn.rain.com Wed May 13 09:54:36 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 7224 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 09:54:36 -0000 Received: from qiclab.scn.rain.com (root@205.238.26.97) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 09:54:36 -0000 Received: by qiclab.scn.rain.com (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #1) id ; Wed, 13 May 1998 04:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by krypton.rain.com (rnr) via rnr; Wed, 13 May 1998 00:12:11 PST To: m100@list.30below.com X-Original-Article-From: James Cameron Subject: Re: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed [compuserve & cd-rom] From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Message-ID: <980513.001211.1b5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:12:11 PST In-Reply-To: <3556333B.59E2@stl.dec.com> Organization: Shadownet X-Newsreader: rnr v2.20 In mail, cameron@stl.dec.com writes: > Leonard Erickson wrote: >> Well, I think the best bet is to have *someone* (or several someones) >> archive the files while it is still possible. *Then* we can try >> tracking down authors for permission. > > Aye, this is "reasonable" as far as a court would see it, in my opinion. > > If you have done all that is reasonable to try to contact the author, > you may still be able to publish it provided you are clear as to where > you got it from and what the author's name was on the item. Not as I understand compilation copyright. > I imagine that asking Compuserve to be your mediator for contacting > these authors who have terminated their Compuserve membership may result > in a refusal. More likely in a "cease and desist" order from their lawyers. See my other post for details. -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort From krypton!shadow@qiclab.scn.rain.com Wed May 13 09:54:43 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 7258 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 09:54:39 -0000 Received: from qiclab.scn.rain.com (root@205.238.26.97) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 09:54:39 -0000 Received: by qiclab.scn.rain.com (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #1) id ; Wed, 13 May 1998 04:01:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by krypton.rain.com (rnr) via rnr; Wed, 13 May 1998 00:16:08 PST To: m100@list.30below.com X-Original-Article-From: Quantum Seep Subject: Re: FC Error From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Message-ID: <980513.001608.8m6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 00:16:08 PST In-Reply-To: Organization: Shadownet X-Newsreader: rnr v2.20 In mail, qseep@shells.technojunkie.com writes: > The other problem was the FC Error. Now this problem had nothing > to do specifically with the program that I typed in from the web > site. It was not a runtime error. It happened when I typed a > simple command in immediate mode: > > save"fenix" > > I also tried variants such as save"ram:fenix" and save"fenix". > > What happened was, I typed the program in in BASIC mode, and > saved it, partially complete, to RAM. Later I finished entering > the program, and tried to save it again, using the same command > above. It is this save command which generated the "?FC Error". Ah! The problem is that when you first saved the program you created the file FENIX.BA. Then later you (I assume) went into BASIC and used the command LOAD"FENIX" to load the program. Then you finished entering it. Then you got the error message when you tried the save. What happened is this. When the LOAD command executed, the FENIX.BA *became* the current BASIC environment. Your edits were on the actual file. You couldn't save it because the file was already open! I know that exiting to the menu will save the program ok. I'm not sure if typing NEW would save it and move you into an empty BASIC workspace or not. I *think* it will. > If I try to save again, it works, but I get this error. That is, > it is correctly saving the file to RAM, but giving me this error > anyway. No, it's *not* saving it. It's *already* saved. In the 100 and it's clones, when editing a file (BASIC or TEXT) you are working on the *actual* file, not a copy. This takes some getting used to. Also, there's a hidden file name for the file created when you start entering code in BASIC without having used SAVE. And another for the paste buffer. And I think there's a third one for the "file" created when you use EDIT in BASIC. > Maybe most of you don't enter programs in BASIC mode, so you haven't > noticed this problem. I'm thinking perhaps I'm supposed to denote > the fact that I'm saving over an existing file. It's denoting the fact that you are trying to save to an *open* file. Once named, you never have to use SAVE on the file again. Though you can do things like SAVE"FENIX.DO" to save a *copy* as a text file. I've done a *lot* of BASIC program writing, as I've had a 100 since shortly after they went on the market. -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort From qseep@shells.technojunkie.com Wed May 13 13:30:58 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 140 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 13:30:57 -0000 Received: from shells.technojunkie.com (qseep@208.145.132.231) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 13:30:57 -0000 Received: from localhost (qseep@localhost) by shells.technojunkie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA02428 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 07:32:42 -0700 Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 07:32:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Quantum Seep To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Duplicate messages? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Right, I think the duplicate messages were coming just because people were CCing me. However, I noticed another problem I am having with the list - when I send a message to it, I get a message back from mailer daemon saying the message was undeliverable for 4 hours. And sometimes other strange errors. Yet, the posts go through. /-------- Quantum Seep, qseep@technojunkie.com --- PGP fingerprint: 5B 3B 7B EC AA 5B 4B 7F 65 7D 2A CD 69 11 29 2A From kevin.slater@ingrambook.com Wed May 13 13:54:26 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 304 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 13:54:25 -0000 Received: from ns1.ingrambook.com (208.129.249.2) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 13:54:25 -0000 Received: from [172.18.16.7] by ns1.ingrambook.com via smtpd (for mail.30below.com [12.15.88.1]) with SMTP; 13 May 1998 15:03:08 UT Received: from kslater.ingrambook ([172.18.21.243]) by ibcntmail.ingrambook.com (2.0 Build 2144 (Berkeley 8.8.4)/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA45223 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 10:05:41 -0500 Reply-To: "Kevin Slater" From: "Kevin Slater" To: Subject: Chivalry Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:00:54 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd7e7f$ed3594e0$f31512ac@kslater.ingrambook> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD7E56.045F8CE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD7E56.045F8CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable chiv.al.ry n., pl. -ries b. A gallant or courteous act. I must say I really enjoy this list, as a flame war doesn't break out = when someone is wrong.=20 (i.e.) Sir Rick: You save the file this way. Sir Roger: No you don't need to save it that way. Sir Rick: Well I stand(er sit) corrected. Sir James: No you can save it Rick's way. Sir Roger: Well I stand(er sit) corrected. My hats off to all gentlepersons on this list for not getting nasty when = we are corrected. Kevin B. Slater kevin.slater@ingrambook.com (work) kslater@edge.net (home) ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD7E56.045F8CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
chiv.al.ry n., pl. -ries b. A gallant or courteous=20 act.
 
I must say I really enjoy this list, = as a flame=20 war doesn't break out when someone is wrong.
 
(i.e.)
Sir Rick: You save the file this=20 way.
 
Sir Roger: No you don't need to save = it that=20 way.
 
Sir Rick: Well I stand(er sit)=20 corrected.
 
Sir James: No you can save it Rick's = way.
 
Sir Roger: Well I stand(er sit)=20 corrected.
 
My hats off to all gentlepersons on = this list=20 for not getting nasty when we are corrected.
 
Kevin B. Slater
kevin.slater@ingrambook.com=20 (work)
kslater@edge.net=20 (home)
------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD7E56.045F8CE0-- From kevin.slater@ingrambook.com Wed May 13 13:58:28 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 432 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 13:58:27 -0000 Received: from ns1.ingrambook.com (208.129.249.2) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 13:58:27 -0000 Received: from [172.18.16.7] by ns1.ingrambook.com via smtpd (for mail.30below.com [12.15.88.1]) with SMTP; 13 May 1998 15:07:09 UT Received: from kslater.ingrambook ([172.18.21.243]) by ibcntmail.ingrambook.com (2.0 Build 2144 (Berkeley 8.8.4)/8.8.4) with SMTP id KAA45243 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 10:09:41 -0500 Reply-To: "Kevin Slater" From: "Kevin Slater" To: "Model 100 List" Subject: Sorry about HTML post. Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 10:04:54 -0500 Message-ID: <01bd7e80$7ca2ce40$f31512ac@kslater.ingrambook> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sorry I didn't have plain text turned on. Kevin From thedock@value.net Wed May 13 14:56:48 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 726 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 14:56:47 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 14:56:47 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id JAA03286 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 09:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:05:28 -0700 (PDT) From: To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: The Return Of The Giant Hogweed [compuserve & cd-rom] In-Reply-To: <980513.000305.3y3.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 13 May 1998, Leonard Erickson wrote: > Again, they do not have a copyright on the inidividual files, but on the > *collection* of files. Thus posting the whole thing is the *worst* thing > you can do. I understand. Most of all the good stuff we already have had online for years under our own cataloging invention. I would never post the entire CIS collection cause most of it is junk and we decided years ago that their cataloging was not correct. If anything, individual programs will be pulled to add to our collection using our cataloging scheme. No, the CIS collection is dead as it stands and will never be revived in its present form. The Club 100 library we get some enhansements and have programs not found in any other collection. I do greatly appreciate the many concerns I've received from all of you and will definately not break the rules. Please, let's all rest easy on this subject. Thank you. -Rick- From thedock@value.net Wed May 13 15:13:13 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 857 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 15:13:13 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 15:13:13 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id JAA06527 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 09:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:21:55 -0700 (PDT) From: To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: Duplicate messages? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 13 May 1998, Quantum Seep wrote: > list - when I send a message to it, I get a message back from mailer > daemon saying the message was undeliverable for 4 hours. And sometimes > other strange errors. Yet, the posts go through. I know. This "error" just started. It's cause by some dingbat who didn't key in their e-mail address correctly. Hopefully, Roger will notice it and delete that entry. Roger is the keeper of the database, which I believe is still in manual mode, i.e. he puts people on and take them off. Let's see what he says about this. -Rick- From thedock@value.net Wed May 13 15:16:32 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 971 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 15:16:31 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 15:16:31 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id JAA07232 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 09:25:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:25:12 -0700 (PDT) From: To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: Chivalry In-Reply-To: <01bd7e7f$ed3594e0$f31512ac@kslater.ingrambook> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 13 May 1998, Kevin Slater wrote: > chiv.al.ry n., pl. -ries b. A gallant or courteous act. > I must say I really enjoy this list, as a flame war doesn't break out > when someone is wrong. > My hats off to all gentlepersons on this list for not getting nasty when > we are corrected. What a very nice thing to say, Kevin. Thank you, my friend. You made my day, for sure. -Rick- From zmerch@30below.com Wed May 13 18:03:02 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 1693 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 18:03:02 -0000 Received: from ns2.30below.com (HELO www.30below.com) (12.15.88.2) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 18:03:02 -0000 Content-Length: 1983 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on Linux Sender: zmerch@www.30below.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:09:27 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Iceberg Computers From: Roger Merchberger To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: Duplicate messages? On 13-May-98 thedock@value.net wrote: >On Wed, 13 May 1998, Quantum Seep wrote: > >> list - when I send a message to it, I get a message back from mailer >> daemon saying the message was undeliverable for 4 hours. And sometimes >> other strange errors. Yet, the posts go through. >I know. This "error" just started. It's cause by some dingbat who didn't >key in their e-mail address correctly. Almost, Rick (but a darned good try on your part!) The "deferral" message was because that particular user's mailbox is either full, or he moved his service and the old ISP didn't eliminate the old username correctly. There were also some "route to host not found" messages involving four other users -- all 5 addresses have been commented out of the database, but not totally whacked -- so if those folks mail me it won't be hard to re-add them in. > Hopefully, Roger will notice it >and delete that entry. Roger is the keeper of the database, which I >believe is still in manual mode, i.e. he puts people on and take them off. >Let's see what he says about this. -Rick- Well, the list is in "semi-automatic" mode -- the web page won't be up until Friday, but the automatic mail address - m100-request@list.30below.com - works -- and works fine for sub's. However, I think there's a bug for the unsubbing; I think it's case sensative... so if the address to delete doesn't exactly match in case to what you sent it, it may not think you're on the list. That should be fixed Friday or so as well. Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- Roger Merchberger *** zmerch@30below.com Merch's AutoGenerated Message of Wisdom below! _/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_/\_ Will Rogers, having paid too much income tax one year, tried in vain to claim a rebate. His numerous letters and queries remained unanswered. Eventually the form for the next year's return arrived. In the section marked "DEDUCTIONS," Rogers listed: "Bad debt, US Government -- $40,000." From krypton!shadow@qiclab.scn.rain.com Wed May 13 20:00:13 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 2513 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 20:00:13 -0000 Received: from qiclab.scn.rain.com (root@205.238.26.97) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 20:00:13 -0000 Received: by qiclab.scn.rain.com (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #1) id ; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:08:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by krypton.rain.com (rnr) via rnr; Wed, 13 May 1998 12:59:01 PST To: m100@list.30below.com X-Original-Article-From: Quantum Seep Subject: Re: Duplicate messages? From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Message-ID: <980513.125901.7H2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:59:01 PST In-Reply-To: Organization: Shadownet X-Newsreader: rnr v2.20 In mail, qseep@shells.technojunkie.com writes: > Right, I think the duplicate messages were coming just because people > were CCing me. However, I noticed another problem I am having with the > list - when I send a message to it, I get a message back from mailer > daemon saying the message was undeliverable for 4 hours. And sometimes > other strange errors. Yet, the posts go through. What's happening is that due to the way the list is doing the message headers, any messages to folks on the list that run into problems (like a bad address) get bounced back to the person who *sent* the message, rather than the list maintainer. -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort From qseep@shells.technojunkie.com Wed May 13 20:53:41 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 2882 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 20:53:41 -0000 Received: from shells.technojunkie.com (qseep@208.145.132.231) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 20:53:41 -0000 Received: from localhost (qseep@localhost) by shells.technojunkie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA23324 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 14:55:06 -0700 Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:55:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Quantum Seep To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: 80C85 assembly? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I've found a cross assembler for the 80C85, but I need documentation for the instruction set. I didn't have any luck searching the web. I also couldn't find any books available below $50. Does anyone know a web site where I can find this info, or have a doc they could mail me? Or a book to sell me, cheap? Thanks. These days you just get used to finding that kind of stuff on the web. I was just reading all about programming the PA-RISC on HP's site. I know the C64 and 6502 docs are out there too. /-------- Quantum Seep, qseep@technojunkie.com --- PGP fingerprint: 5B 3B 7B EC AA 5B 4B 7F 65 7D 2A CD 69 11 29 2A From james.cameron@digital.com Wed May 13 22:48:10 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 3409 invoked from network); 13 May 1998 22:48:09 -0000 Received: from mail13.digital.com (192.208.46.30) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 13 May 1998 22:48:09 -0000 Received: from rmstar.stl.dec.com (rmstar.stl.dec.com [16.153.32.42]) by mail13.digital.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/WV1.0e) with ESMTP id TAA31730 for ; Wed, 13 May 1998 19:56:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ogg.stl.dec.com (ogg.stl.dec.com [16.153.32.169]) by rmstar.stl.dec.com (8.8.8/8.8.6) with SMTP id JAA27464; Thu, 14 May 1998 09:56:47 +1000 (EST) Received: from localhost by ogg.stl.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/21Oct96-0405PM) id AA00006; Thu, 14 May 1998 09:56:45 +1000 Sender: cameron@ogg.stl.dec.com Message-Id: <355A333D.6201@digital.com> Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 09:56:45 +1000 From: James Cameron Organization: Netrek Vanilla Server Maintainer X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; OSF1 V3.2 alpha) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: 80C85 assembly? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I use a Z-80 assembler instead. I haven't found any documentation on the web for the instruction sets ... but then I haven't looked very hard either. I can provide the C code for the Z80 assembler I use. It's at home though, and I'm at work. Nowadays I use it mainly to rebuild my FORTH kernel for my Tandy 102's. I also have a ZDIS.C for dissassembly. I definitely have that code here at work. -- James Cameron (james.cameron@digital.com) Digital Equipment Corporation (Australia) Pty. Ltd. A.C.N. 000 446 800 From dgould@raider.grcc.cc.mi.us Thu May 14 21:20:09 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 8341 invoked from network); 14 May 1998 21:20:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO raider.grcc.cc.mi.us) (198.110.72.5) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 14 May 1998 21:20:08 -0000 Received: by raider.grcc.cc.mi.us; id AA08692; Thu, 14 May 1998 18:28:19 -0400 Message-Id: <199805141826350250.00E285E7@raider.grcc.cc.mi.us> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.40.41.05 Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 18:26:35 -0400 From: "David Gould" To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: serial xfer problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I've got a 102 I use mostly for writing reports. I've used a null-modem= cable and I've always been able to send and receive files without= problems. Until yesterday I hadn't used it in a few months. Now I can= send files from the 102 to the PC without a hitch (using an old version of= Procomm Plus, as usual) but sending files to the 102 doesn't work. I= tried 102's terminal program and some characters come through and others= only come through as wacky high-ascii. It only garbles certain= characters, which never come through, and other certain characters always= come through. I didn't (but should have) make a note of which characters= don't get through. I've tried it with and without CTS/RTS and XON/XOFF= but it doesn't make any difference. Why would it be doing that, and how= should I fix it? David Gould From djfirth@freenet.columbus.oh.us Fri May 15 17:00:18 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 11369 invoked from network); 15 May 1998 17:00:18 -0000 Received: from mail.freenet.columbus.oh.us (164.107.107.13) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 15 May 1998 17:00:18 -0000 Received: from acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us (login [164.107.107.11]) by mail.freenet.columbus.oh.us (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id OAA26939 for ; Fri, 15 May 1998 14:08:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from djfirth@localhost) by acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us (8.8.5/8.8.4) id OAA26728; Fri, 15 May 1998 14:08:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:07:24 -0400 (EDT) From: David Firth Subject: Zip drive To: M100 Listserv Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Whatever happened to the attempt to figure out the Zip drive protocol? I forget the name of the person on the list who wanted to attempt it. Any extra info (good or bad) happen while the listserv was offline? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Firth ! Do not go gentle into that good night, NEC PC-8201A ! Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Tandy 102 ! Rage, rage at the dying of the light. -- D Thomas From krypton!shadow@qiclab.scn.rain.com Sat May 16 03:57:44 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 14155 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 03:57:44 -0000 Received: from qiclab.scn.rain.com (root@205.238.26.97) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 16 May 1998 03:57:44 -0000 Received: by qiclab.scn.rain.com (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #1) id ; Fri, 15 May 1998 22:06:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by krypton.rain.com (rnr) via rnr; Fri, 15 May 1998 22:00:28 PST To: m100@list.30below.com X-Original-Article-From: David Firth Subject: Re: Zip drive From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Message-ID: <980515.220028.9H6.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 22:00:28 PST In-Reply-To: Organization: Shadownet X-Newsreader: rnr v2.20 In mail, djfirth@freenet.columbus.oh.us writes: > Whatever happened to the attempt to figure out the Zip drive protocol? I > forget the name of the person on the list who wanted to attempt it. Any > extra info (good or bad) happen while the listserv was offline? The problem is that even if we knew the protocol, the M100 printer port doesn't have all the lines required for even the *lowest* level printer port that the drive will talk to. :-( -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort From djfirth@freenet.columbus.oh.us Sat May 16 21:26:43 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 16912 invoked from network); 16 May 1998 21:26:43 -0000 Received: from mail.freenet.columbus.oh.us (164.107.107.13) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 16 May 1998 21:26:43 -0000 Received: from acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us (login [164.107.107.11]) by mail.freenet.columbus.oh.us (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id SAA12485 for ; Sat, 16 May 1998 18:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from djfirth@localhost) by acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us (8.8.5/8.8.4) id SAA02957; Sat, 16 May 1998 18:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 18:33:19 -0400 (EDT) From: David Firth Subject: Re: Zip drive (fwd) To: M100 Listserv Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >> Whatever happened to the attempt to figure out the Zip drive protocol? I >The problem is that even if we knew the protocol, the M100 printer port >doesn't have all the lines required for even the *lowest* level printer >port that the drive will talk to. :-( Correct. The idea was to attach a second parallel port either as a conversion off the serial port or as a new port tied to the system bus. This was part of the project. From thedock@value.net Sun May 17 14:31:36 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 19412 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 14:31:36 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 17 May 1998 14:31:36 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id IAA09086 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 08:40:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 08:40:02 -0700 (PDT) From: To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: serial xfer problem In-Reply-To: <199805141826350250.00E285E7@raider.grcc.cc.mi.us> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Thu, 14 May 1998, David Gould wrote: > I've got a 102 I use mostly for writing reports. I've used a null-modem > cable and I've always been able to send and receive files without > problems. Until yesterday I hadn't used it in a few months. Now I can > send files from the 102 to the PC without a hitch (using an old version > of Procomm Plus, as usual) but sending files to the 102 doesn't work. David: Before you panic, try doing a cold start. It was discovered several years ago by some of our local members that a cold start would fix certain things. There are a number of ways to do a cold start. 1) Turn off the Memory Power on the bottom of the machine and leave it off for an hour. This, of course, is the long way to go about it. 2) With the Model 102 turned on, hold down on the and keys. Maintain pressure on those keys. Press in on the key on the back edge of the machine. Hold all three for a second. Release the key then release the other two keys. -- Note: It's 1989... little by little these machines will go away -- get harder to find and will fail. Look for and buy all the 102s you can find in your local area. Start now. I covered a few of the sources in my last newsletter at the Club 100 web site. -Rick- Richard Hanson, Proprietor thedock@value.net Club 100: The Model "T" User Group (since 1983) P.O. Box 23438, Pleasant Hill, CA 94523-0438 925-932-8956, fax 937-5039, bbs 939-1246 http://www.the-dock.com/club100.html From InfoBBS@aol.com Sun May 17 14:58:06 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 19545 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 14:58:05 -0000 Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (198.81.17.70) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 17 May 1998 14:58:05 -0000 Received: from InfoBBS@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id NIXJa02437 for ; Sun, 17 May 1998 12:05:35 -0400 (EDT) From: InfoBBS Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 12:05:35 EDT To: m100@list.30below.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Printer Paper Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 I have a m100 and love the machine!! I also have a TRP-100(26-1275) which is a printer that Radio Shack made for the m100. Would like to know if anyone has found the thermal paper for it (76-1003). Could buy it though RSU or somewhere.. Shea From thedock@value.net Sun May 17 15:10:29 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 19684 invoked from network); 17 May 1998 15:10:28 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 17 May 1998 15:10:28 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id JAA12025; Sun, 17 May 1998 09:18:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 09:18:54 -0700 (PDT) From: To: InfoBBS cc: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: Printer Paper In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sun, 17 May 1998, InfoBBS wrote: > I have a m100 and love the machine!! I also have a TRP-100(26-1275) > which is a printer that Radio Shack made for the m100. Would like to > know if anyone has found the thermal paper for it (76-1003). Could buy > it though RSU or somewhere.. Shea The TRP-100 will use fax paper. Please go ahead and try it. You will not hurt the TRP-100 by trying it with off-the-shelf thermal fax paper. -Rick @ Club 100- From krypton!shadow@qiclab.scn.rain.com Mon May 18 09:59:45 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 22223 invoked from network); 18 May 1998 09:59:45 -0000 Received: from qiclab.scn.rain.com (root@205.238.26.97) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 18 May 1998 09:59:45 -0000 Received: by qiclab.scn.rain.com (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #1) id ; Mon, 18 May 1998 04:08:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by krypton.rain.com (rnr) via rnr; Mon, 18 May 1998 00:25:56 PST To: m100@list.30below.com X-Original-Article-From: InfoBBS Subject: Re: Printer Paper From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Message-ID: <980518.002556.6j8.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 00:25:56 PST In-Reply-To: Organization: Shadownet X-Newsreader: rnr v2.20 In mail, InfoBBS@aol.com writes: > I have a m100 and love the machine!! I also have a TRP-100(26-1275) > which is a printer that Radio Shack made for the m100. Would like to > know if anyone has found the thermal paper for it (76-1003). Could > buy it though RSU or somewhere.. Check with paper stores in your area. You need thermal paper that prints *black* rather than blue. And give them the roll width, and a guess about the roll diameter and center hole size. They'll likely have *something* that'll work. -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort From InfoBBS@aol.com Mon May 18 14:23:26 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 22777 invoked from network); 18 May 1998 14:23:25 -0000 Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (198.81.17.70) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 18 May 1998 14:23:25 -0000 Received: from InfoBBS@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id NTOCa02437 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 11:30:52 -0400 (EDT) From: InfoBBS Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:30:52 EDT To: m100@list.30below.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Tape Recocder for m100 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Hello,I have a Model 100 and looking to see what you people use for your Tape Recoder on your 100's. And I already have the cable for it. And what do you use for tapes? Shea From thedock@value.net Mon May 18 14:38:58 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 22912 invoked from network); 18 May 1998 14:38:56 -0000 Received: from value.net (thedock@204.188.125.4) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 18 May 1998 14:38:56 -0000 Received: from localhost (thedock@localhost) by value.net (8.8.7/8.7.4) with SMTP id IAA25902 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 08:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 08:47:14 -0700 (PDT) From: To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: Tape Recocder for m100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 18 May 1998, InfoBBS wrote: > Hello,I have a Model 100 and looking to see what you people use for your > Tape Recoder on your 100's. And I already have the cable for it. And > what do you use for tapes? Shea Although tape is almost a dead issue for regular use, replaced by the tpdd, tpdd2 (Tandy Portable Disk Drive or Disk Drive 2) or file transfers to another computer (see Club 100 web site, library, member uploads, DL-ARC.EXE), tape still works okay and is okay if you are not in a hurry, will keep yourself organized, and make multiple copies and/or test all your copies. Tandy offered two tape recorders for use with the Model 100 series. They both start with CCR, short for Computer Cassette Recorder. Model 81 and Model 82. The 82 was the best. It was much smaller than the 81 and had a "P" setting (program) that kicked in a square wave circuit. The best tape to use was the cheapest, non-anything! Leaderless tape is good but you may use tape with a leader, knowing that you must forward the tape past the leader before recording. Tape is linear and thus must be managed for file length. Most folks use one tape per file (word processing, database, etc.), or store programs (assuming that the programs will not grow in length) on one tape -- annotating where on the tape each program begins. Why? Because tape has no index. But wait... along comes tape with an index. It's called waffer, requiring a waffer drive. I just happend to have one but won't part with it due to its historic value to the club. But alas, waffer never caught on, so finding one will be kind of hard and good luck finding waffer tapes. Tape works and the Model 100 has a built in tape drive connector and such for tape use. Having a tape drive is not a bad idea and could save your valuable files in an emergency. Model "T"s forever... -Rick @ Club 100- From djfirth@freenet.columbus.oh.us Mon May 18 16:04:29 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 23307 invoked from network); 18 May 1998 16:04:29 -0000 Received: from mail.freenet.columbus.oh.us (164.107.107.13) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 18 May 1998 16:04:29 -0000 Received: from acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us (login [164.107.107.11]) by mail.freenet.columbus.oh.us (8.8.7/8.8.6) with ESMTP id NAA27041 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:12:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from djfirth@localhost) by acme.freenet.columbus.oh.us (8.8.5/8.8.4) id NAA27146; Mon, 18 May 1998 13:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 13:04:51 -0400 (EDT) From: David Firth Subject: Re: Tape Recocder for m100 (fwd) To: M100 Listserv Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Hello,I have a Model 100 and looking to see what you people use for your > Tape Recoder on your 100's. And I already have the cable for it. And > what do you use for tapes? Shea +++++ Many good comments from Rick (Mr. M100) snipped... Tandy offered two tape recorders for use with the Model 100 series. They both start with CCR, short for Computer Cassette Recorder. Model 81 and Model 82. The 82 was the best. It was much smaller than the 81 and had a "P" setting (program) that kicked in a square wave circuit. +++++ I have had good luck with some regular 'ol cassette recorders. The one I have now for emergency use is a GE model. Cassette recorders can be finicky. If you can find a CCR-82, you'll have fewer problems. They crop up on ebay, the Club 100 for sale area, and the comp.sys.tandy group. The best tape to use was the cheapest, non-anything! Leaderless tape is good but you may use tape with a leader, knowing that you must forward the tape past the leader before recording. +++++ The best computer cassettes were short, as well. The big C90 tapes used by people for voice can bog down a small recorder, causing small variations in tape speed. A good recorder would probably have spped control, but I recommend trying to get C30 or C15 tapes. Tape works and the Model 100 has a built in tape drive connector and such for tape use. Having a tape drive is not a bad idea and could save your valuable files in an emergency. +++++ Tape recorders are also everywhere and on a go-light trip where you want to travel without all the accessories a M100 and a cable and a tape might be the way to go (borrow the recorder when you get there). At least it looks good in theory. In reality, tape was always a bit touchy to do this all the time. From dgould@raider.grcc.cc.mi.us Mon May 18 18:30:34 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 23913 invoked from network); 18 May 1998 18:30:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO raider.grcc.cc.mi.us) (198.110.72.5) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 18 May 1998 18:30:33 -0000 Received: by raider.grcc.cc.mi.us; id AA04075; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:40:39 -0400 Message-Id: <199805181537080270.0A71B3DD@raider.grcc.cc.mi.us> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Calypso Version 2.40.41.05 Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:37:08 -0400 From: "David Gould" To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: serial xfer problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks. I'll give that a try tonight. Come to think of it, it's been= sitting empty, but not cold started, for two or three months. David Gould *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 5/17/98, at 8:40 AM, wrote: >On Thu, 14 May 1998, David Gould wrote: > >> I've got a 102 I use mostly for writing reports. I've used a null-modem >> cable and I've always been able to send and receive files without >> problems. Until yesterday I hadn't used it in a few months. Now I can >> send files from the 102 to the PC without a hitch (using an old version >> of Procomm Plus, as usual) but sending files to the 102 doesn't work. > >David: Before you panic, try doing a cold start. It was discovered >several years ago by some of our local members that a cold start would fix >certain things. There are a number of ways to do a cold start. > >1) Turn off the Memory Power on the bottom of the machine and leave it off >for an hour. This, of course, is the long way to go about it. > >2) With the Model 102 turned on, hold down on the and keys. >Maintain pressure on those keys. Press in on the key on the back >edge of the machine. Hold all three for a second. Release the >key then release the other two keys. > >-- > >Note: It's 1989... little by little these machines will go away -- get >harder to find and will fail. Look for and buy all the 102s you can >find in your local area. Start now. I covered a few of the sources in my >last newsletter at the Club 100 web site. -Rick- > >Richard Hanson, Proprietor thedock@value.net >Club 100: The Model "T" User Group (since 1983) >P.O. Box 23438, Pleasant Hill, CA 94523-0438 >925-932-8956, fax 937-5039, bbs 939-1246 >http://www.the-dock.com/club100.html From techno@owned.moron.com Tue May 19 03:41:07 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 26507 invoked from network); 19 May 1998 03:41:07 -0000 Received: from owned.moron.com (techno@205.146.128.133) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 19 May 1998 03:41:07 -0000 Received: (from techno@localhost) by owned.moron.com (8.8.5/2.31337.4.U) id AAA09239; Tue, 19 May 1998 00:49:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 00:49:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Woodrow Hinkleman To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Re: Tape Recocder for m100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 18 May 1998, InfoBBS wrote: > Hello,I have a Model 100 and looking to see what you people use for your > Tape Recoder on your 100's. And I already have the cable for it. And > what do you use for tapes? Hi. In roughly 15 years of cassette-based computing, I never encountered a tape unit anywhere near as fine as the Tandy CCR-82. Besides its previously-mentioned features, it also has a switchable monitor circuit to allow record and playback audio to be heard through the speaker, a data LED, and a pause/remote-defeat switch (no more plugging and unplugging cables all the time!). Not to mention the apparently little-known speed adjustment pot which allows the unit to be set properly (in my case, several adjusted in sync with each other). The CCR-82's internal mechanism is mostly metal, rather than the flimsy plastic used in most cheap recorders, and it uses the same 4 'AA' cells (or wall wart) as the m100 itself; quite convenient (nice small size too). As far as tapes, I've had excellent luck with TDK D-60 and D-90 tapes. Most of my use of the CCR-82 has actually been with CoCos rather than m100s, but the cassette interfaces and protocols of the two machines are nearly identical (including using exactly the same cable). Works great on the m100 as well! //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ---Woodrow (techno@moron.com) http://www.moron.com/~techno/ Amiga Forever --- Intel Outside! If you decide what processor to use based on a television commercial, you *DESERVE* nothing more than the Pentium. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From krypton!shadow@qiclab.scn.rain.com Tue May 19 09:59:45 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 27445 invoked from network); 19 May 1998 09:59:45 -0000 Received: from qiclab.scn.rain.com (root@205.238.26.97) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 19 May 1998 09:59:45 -0000 Received: by qiclab.scn.rain.com (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #1) id ; Tue, 19 May 1998 04:08:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by krypton.rain.com (rnr) via rnr; Mon, 18 May 1998 22:58:23 PST To: m100@list.30below.com X-Original-Article-From: InfoBBS Subject: Re: Tape Recocder for m100 From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) Message-ID: <980518.225823.7g7.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 22:58:23 PST In-Reply-To: Organization: Shadownet X-Newsreader: rnr v2.20 In mail, InfoBBS@aol.com writes: > Hello,I have a Model 100 and looking to see what you people use for your Tape > Recoder on your 100's. And I already have the cable for it. And what do you > use for tapes? I use the tape recorder Tandy sold for it. It's a nice little unit. CCR-82? As for tapes, most audio tape works just fine. I once ran into a brand of tape that for some reason *wouldn't* work for storing data, but we found they worked fine for audio. Go figure. -- Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) shadow@krypton.rain.com <--preferred leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com <--last resort From qseep@shells.technojunkie.com Tue May 19 16:49:00 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 28701 invoked from network); 19 May 1998 16:49:00 -0000 Received: from shells.technojunkie.com (qseep@208.145.132.231) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 19 May 1998 16:49:00 -0000 Received: from localhost (qseep@localhost) by shells.technojunkie.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA27265 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 10:49:41 -0700 Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 10:49:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Quantum Seep To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: Tape recorders Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Since the Tandy tape recorders are scarce, I wonder about the feasibility of several alternatives: 1) A Walkman. I suppose I'd have to manually activate record/playback on the unit when I save/load a program. 2) A Commodore cassette recorder. These are more readily available, and can be remote activated. I wonder if connecting the right pins to the right pins would do the trick. This recorder takes it power from the connector, though. 3) A shoebox recorder with remote activated mic input. Would the remote activation on such a machine be compatible with the relay mechanism in the M100? 4) A minidisc recorder. Similar to using the Walkman, but with the advantage of random access. Each program could have its own track, and to load a particular one, I could skip to it first. 5) A PC sound card. I could attach the M100 to the audio I/O jacks on a PC, and record/play from the hard disk, saving each program as a separate file. Of course, what's the point of this, when I could connect it via the serial port? 6) CD-R. Like #5, but I burn the result to a CD, and can use a portable CD-player to load back the software. Provides random access, and much longer media life than tape. Would I need to be careful about the recording volume? /-------- Quantum Seep, qseep@technojunkie.com --- PGP fingerprint: 5B 3B 7B EC AA 5B 4B 7F 65 7D 2A CD 69 11 29 2A From InfoBBS@aol.com Wed May 20 00:47:27 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 31060 invoked from network); 20 May 1998 00:47:26 -0000 Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (198.81.17.35) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 20 May 1998 00:47:26 -0000 Received: from InfoBBS@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (IMOv14.1) id NRYFa29741 for ; Tue, 19 May 1998 21:54:45 +2000 (EDT) From: InfoBBS Message-ID: <868ac51c.356237e6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 21:54:45 EDT To: m100@list.30below.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Questions Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Mac sub 84 Have some questions about the TRS-80 Model 100 1. When bid Radio Shack stop selling the 100? 2. What is the diffence from the 100 and the 102? 3. Was there any program that Radio Shack sold that were on tapes? (reason I'm asking is I have PC-2(Pocket Computer 2) that I bought some tapes for that are new in the box) 4. Is Kyocera still in business today? 5. Are they still makeing this types of laptops 6. What was the cost for one of these when they were new? I'm only 20 years and I used to work at a radio shack store and someone give me this computer for free, used only once! Still in new shape. I have used other laptop computers this one is the only laptop I'm ever going to use From zmerch@30below.com Wed May 20 01:02:39 1998 Return-Path: Delivered-To: m100@list.30below.com Received: (qmail 31299 invoked from network); 20 May 1998 01:02:39 -0000 Received: from ns2.30below.com (HELO www.30below.com) (12.15.88.2) by mail.30below.com with SMTP; 20 May 1998 01:02:39 -0000 Content-Length: 1878 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.1 [p0] on Linux Sender: zmerch@www.30below.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <868ac51c.356237e6@aol.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 1998 22:09:12 -0400 (EDT) Organization: Iceberg Computers From: Roger Merchberger To: m100@list.30below.com Subject: RE: Questions On 19-May-98 InfoBBS wrote: >Have some questions about the TRS-80 Model 100 > >1. When bid Radio Shack